Inside an Open Adoption: Perspectives from a Birth Mom & Adoptive Mom

Transcript of "Inside an Open Adoption"

Erin Quick, PairTree Founder: Hi, ladies.

Janee Allen, adoptive mom: Hi.

Jess Nelson, birth mom: Hi.

Erin: How are you?

Janee: Good.

Jess: How are you?

Erin: Good. So today for our PairTree community, we have Jess and Janee and this might be the video I’m most excited to do because Jess is a two-time birth mom and now works at On Point Legal and Janee is an adoptive mom of Jess’s daughter Ella and also a biological mom. We’re going to dive into … We have three questions to get through for the community today. I’m going to do a quick intro on PairTree and then we will jump in. So for those that don’t know, my name is Erin Quick and I’m the CEO and co-founder of PairTree and we are a connection platform that helps connect adopting families with expectant moms, with the goal of modernizing the antiquated adoption process in the US.

Erin: And we do videos like this, just to shed some light on things that people maybe have misperceptions about or are scared about. Like, how do you actually handle an open adoption and what it’s like? And so we have two pros with us today. And so I think just to start. Jess, why don’t you start. Quick background on you and how you came to find Janee?

Jess: Well, my name is Jess. I work at On Point Legal, which is an adoption law firm in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. And I am a birth mom two times and I found Janee through one of my closest friends and her closest friends that happened to be at a wedding shower getting their nails done on a Tuesday night and heard about Janee’s story. And my friend called me and then we went and sat at a restaurant for the entire day.

Janee: For a long time.

Jess: And have been together ever since.

Erin: Okay. And Janee, how old is daughter Ella?

Janee: Ella turned three in April. Three years of ruling the house?

Erin: Yes, I have one of those too. I’m very familiar. And Janee, tell us a little bit about your background and the family structure that you have.

Janee: So my husband and I have two biological children. We have a 14 year old daughter and a ten-year-old son, and we just always knew that adoption was a part of our family story. We just didn’t really know how or what that would look like. For a long time, it was, “Oh, we’re going overseas, we’re going to do international.” And then we just kind of felt something shift and started working actually with On Point to try to connect with a birth mom for a placement and felt like we hit dead end after dead end. In a moment of serendipity, our friends happened to be at that wedding shower and the rest is history.

Erin: That’s how it happens. You never know. And so today we’re going to talk about … And these two ladies are pretty candid, which will be great for this kind of conversation. Maybe start a little bit with open adoption. Janee was open adoption, always what you wanted and if not, what were you afraid of? And then Jess, I’m going to ask you the exact same question.

Janee: So my husband is actually probably a better person to ask this question too, because whenever we first started this process, he was very emphatic. We want it as closed as possible, and I was like, “Yes, I agree.” And I think that there are a few things that go into that. One, we were extremely uneducated on what open adoption was and what it wasn’t. And I think in our minds, we went into it thinking that open adoption meant that we had to co-parent and that’s not what this is. But I would also say, to echo what my husband says all the time. We were very close to open adoption until we met Jess. And then once we met her, it was kind of one of those moments of, how could she not be in our lives? She is entrusting us to care for and raise this incredible little human being and how are we going to keep her out of her life?

Janee: So for us, the shift I think happened just when we met and to know that this wasn’t anything that had to be scary. Was there a rule book? Absolutely not. And we’ll talk more about that, but it was definitely one of those things that the more educated we became, the more we understood that it wasn’t something we had to be afraid of. I think part of the scary factor was the fact that we do have two older children and where is their role in this? And that has just kind of been a natural thing as well. Yeah, it was absolutely terrifying until we met Jess.

Erin: Yeah. Okay, Jess. What about you? When you thought about an open adoption, hanging out with these people and watching them parent Ella, what were your thoughts?

Jess: So my experience was a little bit different going in because I had placed a daughter for adoption when I was in college with the promise of open adoption. And as soon as their adoption was finalized, I never heard from them again. So that was my perception and kind of expectation going in was, they’re going to say all of these things and life’s going to happen. We’re going to lose touch and our relationship is just going to become stagnant. And then we met, I felt the same way. I couldn’t imagine not having Trent and Janee and Parker and Jude in my life, in addition to still being able to be a part of Ella’s.

Jess: Our relationship definitely didn’t start off the way that it is now. I don’t think was until, probably almost Ella was one before the two of us and Ella, the three of us met by ourselves. The first times we hung out was … The first time we saw each other after placement was actually at our old On Point Legal office. And then after that, it was always with our group of friends going out to dinner, but it wasn’t us, the first several times that we got together. There was always a buffer. There were always extra people and it was at least a year, if not a year and a half before I met Parker in Jude.

Janee: I think that was the big shift was, I don’t know. I guess Ella was probably about 10 months old and I brought my older daughter to dinner and it was just the four of us. And we had never done that before. She had never met our other kids. Now our son, we waited a little longer because you never know what kind of questions a then seven year old boy are going to ask. I think that it was kind of in that moment that the shift kind of started to take place because it was no longer we, or this is a separate part of our family. Once we brought Parker into it, it was like, this is who we are. This is our family, Jess, is our family.

Erin: Yeah. I want to circle back to something that Jess said, in terms of your first placement promised the moon and then they didn’t follow through. From a birth mom’s perspective, but now as an adoption professional perspective. Recourse do … Because I feel like I know adopting families that I’m sure would feel like, “Of course, you can have anything you want.” I just want the child and that is wrong. And so what recourse do birth moms have or how can that be [crosstalk 00:08:37]?

Jess: I wish we had more recourse and you’re starting to see more of a shift now, in the rights that birth moms have in continuing contact agreements and post-adoption contact agreements and things like that. There’s over 20 states now that recognize post-adoption contact agreements. And in some states they are legally enforceable.

Erin: That’s a PACA for anybody that doesn’t know that or [crosstalk 00:09:08].

Jess: Yep.

Erin: Mm-hmm.

Jess: So when adoptive parents and expecting parents come together and they kind of make an outline of, this is what we as expectant and birth parents want in terms of continuing contact. And this is what adoptive parents feel comfortable with. Everyone comes to the table and puts that in writing and agrees to it. And then you have at least an outline and you have clear expectations of what everyone wants, what everyone’s comfortable with and an expectation that everyone can be held to.

Erin: So Janee, you talked about this a little bit too, because your relationship has definitely evolved the two of you. And so how do you manage that in one of those post adoption contract agreements?

Janee: That’s such a hard question to answer, because I think that, if we had actually put pen to paper before our adoption was finalized, it would not have looked like what it actually is. I feel like, if we had tried to write what we wanted, it would have limited us a lot, if we had only stuck to that. And that’s one thing that I’ve tried to tell other hopeful adoptive families is, an open adoption is not something you can force. The expectations are not something that you can go in upfront and be like, “This is what we’re going to do.” Because every situation is different. I actually told Jess when we were sitting here before the call, I don’t know that it would look like this, if it were anybody other than her.

Erin: Yeah.

Janee: I don’t know what that would look like. I don’t know, if there would be the same level of, not only is she one of the first people I call or texts when it’s something with Ella, but just in life in general. We’re not just in this relationship because of our daughter, we’re friends. And that’s not anything that a legally binding contract could have dictated for me. It’s just happened so organically. And I feel like a lot of times, hopeful adoptive parents, I can’t speak for [inaudible 00:11:27]. I’m not one. And can’t try to get in Jess’s head, don’t don’t want to, because that’s not my place. But I think that going in with too many expectations is the fastest way to kill an open adoption because it had to happen naturally. We were strangers. When Ella was born, we were still strangers. And the only thing we had in common was this tiny little perfect person, which is a huge thing to have in common, but it didn’t make us friends instantly.

Erin: Yes. Yeah. I couldn’t agree more with you because I think even in our experience with adoptions, it was the same. It’s such a strange experience to go through with someone because it’s the biggest thing to happen to your life with someone that you barely know.

Jess: And we didn’t have months and months to get to know each other. We met and Ella was born three weeks later.

Erin: Yeah. I don’t think that’s uncommon though. And we deal with a lot of adopting families and a lot of expectant moms, and it’s definitely not until usually they’re in their third trimester that they’re making some of these big decisions that we’re seeing. That’s interesting. It’s kind of a strange balance because as an adopting family, you want to agree to definitely have some level of contact, but knowing that this is a stranger and your relationship is going to have to evolve. As the birth mom, at least for our adoptions, we were definitely letting her lead. But you realize it’s putting even extra pressure on someone that’s already going through a huge thing to try to determine.

Erin: I don’t think we’re going to solve it today, but it’s definitely something to continue talking about because it is a very dynamic relationship that happens over the course of a lifetime. It’s so strange to have to be agreeing to things pre-adoption or before you really know one another and how you want to play a role in people’s lives. Although, you want to make sure that there is enough that contractually obligates an adopting family, to make sure that the birth mom is getting contact that she wants. Anyhow. Okay. Okay. We’re definitely going over time today.

Erin: One of the last questions I have is, and Janee, you already touched on it a little bit, but I think advice for expectant moms and for adopting families on how to build that. How do you provide people that are about to go through this, the advice on how to structure it, how to maintain it, what to deal with, how to prepare themselves mentally, emotionally?

Janee: So I think two things come to mind immediately. And one of those is something that Ashley Mitchell. A big, tough girl says all the time and that’s, “You just have to keep showing up. You just have to keep showing up.” And there are some days that, that might be hard just because we’re both living two separate, very busy, full lives. And it’s not that we don’t want to be there, but it’s physically not possible. But you have to keep creating the opportunities to just keep showing up. But to me, the biggest thing is, it’s not about me. It’s about my daughter and I don’t ever want her to wonder where she came from.

Janee: I mean, whenever you see her with our family, she doesn’t look like me. She’s got a beautiful tan, I do not. She’s got this wild head of curly hair. I do not, I don’t know what to do with it half the time. She’s very independent. She’s very spunky. She’s got a lot of personality traits that my two biological kids don’t have, or at least not at that level. And I don’t ever want her to wonder where those pieces of her come from because they’re important. And so to me, that was one of the biggest things is, an open adoption is providing my daughter the opportunity to know who she is.

Janee: Whenever we first adopted, I have some family members who have also adopted. And one of the adoptees who is an adult now said, when Ella was just weeks old. She said, “One of the biggest things you’ve got to remember is the whole nature versus nurture.” And there’s that piece of her, that is who she is because of where she came from. And I can love her all I want to, but that doesn’t change who she is. And another friend of mine said something one time that really kind of stuck with me and that’s, it doesn’t have to be nature versus nurture. Those two things have to go hand in hand. That I have to love her because of who she is and where she is and knowing Jess and having Jess in her life, she’ll always know where those pieces of her come from. She’ll always have that. And I never want to keep her from that.

Erin: Yeah, I think [crosstalk 00:17:04].

Janee: That is scarier than not having a relationship with Jess.

Erin: That was very articulate and beautifully said. I think a lot of adopting families get worried about like, “Am I going to actually have like Thanksgiving together?” And you’re like, “Who cares?”

Janee: [crosstalk 00:17:21]. Jess, spent Christmas with us. She’s gone trick or treating with us. That’s just what works for us.

Erin: Yeah. Yeah. But the point is like, who cares about Thanksgiving? Let’s just make sure that your babies are growing up happy, and healthy. And they know who they are and where they come from. Okay.

Jess: Janee, Ella and Parker were there when my fiance proposed to me.

Janee: It was so exciting.

Erin: Yeah, amazing. Jess, do you have anything else to say on that kind of topic in terms of how to structure or how to think about it?

Jess: The thing that I always tell our adoptive families that we work with is, don’t start out by promising the moon, be really realistic and reasonable. If you feel like you can only commit, if birth mom or expectant mom wants you to send pictures once a week, but you really feel like you have other kids at home. You guys both work full-time and you can only commit to sending pictures and updates once a month. Be realistic about that and be honest and agree to that. And if, you can do more than that, great. But don’t set the expectation so high that you’re constantly falling short of it. Set a realistic expectation and if you exceed it, that’s only going to help your relationship grow.

Erin: What about the adopting families that are worried they’re not going to get picked or the birth mom’s going to pick somebody else if they don’t, how do you handle that?

Jess: You really just have to be open and honest. And at the end of the day, if you lie about what you are willing to commit to and available to provide in an open adoption, and you don’t live up to that, or you don’t meet the expectations that both of you agree on. You’re only hurting your child and you’re going to have to answer those questions later on down the road. And that should be something every adoptive parent should think of is, I’m going to have to answer these questions when my son or daughter turns nine and starts asking questions, 12, 13, 18. And searching for their biological family, if they don’t have that connection already. And are you okay with the decisions that you’ve made along the way and how you’ve supported an open adoption relationship? Do you feel comfortable enough in that, that you’re okay to honestly answer those questions to your adoptees when that time comes?

Erin Quick: Yeah. I think that’s an excellent point. There’s going to be somewhat of a moral inventory that you’re taking throughout their whole life that you need to make sure you’re on the right side for number one, the child, but number two, your relationship with that child. Okay. One more question. And then I have to stop it. Janee, you talked a little bit about … Because I think this is something that a lot of families think about because we have a lot of families that already have a biological child or an adopted child that won’t be biologically related to another adopted child. How did you manage that with your kiddos in terms of how you talked about it? I know this probably can be a session unto itself, but just-

Janee: I definitely could talk a lot about this. I think for my husband and I, we just decided upfront. My kids are, I say 14 and 10, they’re almost 14 and 10. So when we started our process of just even starting a home study and all of that, they were 10 and 6. They were young. And so we were just as open and honest as we could be. I mean, here comes this stranger, this social worker into our house, asking them all these questions about how their parents are. We never wanted to keep it a secret from them. It was hard.

Janee: And you asked the question of, what do you tell a hopeful adoptive family who doesn’t get chosen? There were several times through our process where it came down to us and one other family and the other family got picked. And that was a lot for my six year old to understand. And the day that he asked me, “Mom, why don’t they like our family?” Was kind of when we, as parents decided to step back and say, “Okay, maybe we’re not going to tell them until we know for sure.” So when we got on a plane to go meet our daughter, we had to call our children and tell them where we were going, because they had no idea that there was even a sister in the mix.

Janee: But I feel like as much as you can … I mean, every parent knows their kids. And so as much as you can be open. It was not a decision that my husband and I could make on our own. We had to know that they were okay. And my oldest said it so eloquently, whenever Ella was very small. She said, “We never knew our family wasn’t complete until she came home.” I know, I know. And at the time, she was 10. For a ten-year-old to say that, there was a lot of perspective in that. But I feel like it was our openness with them. That it wasn’t like we just dropped this little person into their life and said, “Okay. Now, figure out how you feel about her.”

Janee: And the same thing with introducing Jess to our kids is, they knew about her before they knew her. And they knew that who she was to Ella was special to Ella, but that she was still a part of our family. I mean, if you ask them a three-year-old for the last year, who’s your family. She’ll say, “Mommy, daddy, Parky, Jude, and Mrs. Jess.” And we’ve never told her that, she just knows. She will now tell you, “I was in Mrs. Jess’s belly.” And she has no clue what that means, but we’ve started talking about it. But she’s always just associated Jess with our family, because it’s just always been natural, but that’s just who we are. We’re very open. What you see is what you get with us. And that was how we had to be with our kids too, to kind of make this work. They had to understand that it wasn’t that we were seeking another child because they weren’t enough for our family. But like Parker said, “We never knew what we were missing until she was there.”

Erin: I love that. I already know that we’re going to get requests to bring you two back. So [crosstalk 00:24:12]. Will you please come back and talk to us again?

Janee: Sure.

Jess: Anytime.

Erin: Okay. I am grateful for this. Again, open adoption it’s this weird topic that people don’t know what it means. And so I think the more that we can shed some light on it, the better for everyone. So thank you two for your time and we’ll be in touch soon.

Jess: Thank you.

PairTree was founded on the belief that the adoption process can be better. It is a private self-matching platform that increases and accelerates opportunity for adoptions throughout the United States.

Questions or comments? Contact us at hello@pairtreefamily.com.